How HR can do more for employee health by helping people sooner

[00:00:09] Mallory Hendry: Hello, everyone, and welcome. I'm Mallory Hendry, Specialist Content Manager with Canadian HR Reporter. Thank you for joining us for today's webinar, How HR Can Do More for Employee Health by Helping People Sooner. Today, we're joined by Mark Goe, General Manager at Allen Canada. As the first Canadian employee at Allen, which was itself the first new health and benefits provider in Canada in 70 years. Mark brings a unique perspective. He's ready to delve into why traditional benefits models are often too reactive, how employers can remove friction around access to care, and what a more practical, lower-effort approach to employee health support looks like for HR teams. Throughout the presentation, Mark will run some live polls, so you're very much encouraged to participate in those, and at the end, there will be a question and answer period, so be sure to type any questions you have into the Q&A box within the webinar software. I'll turn things over to Mark now to begin the presentation. Take it away, Mark! 

[00:01:10] Mark Goad: Thanks, Mallory, and thank you very much, everyone, for joining us here today. This is an important topic, something we're really passionate about, and I'm excited to share both some statistics for you, but also some toolkits and measurable things you can do to help your team address their health more preventatively, getting people help sooner, before the incident, before their health starts to slip or incidents happen. So, as Mallory mentioned, my name's Mark, I'm the General Manager for Allen here in Canada. We have a team of 30 based right here in Toronto and Montreal. We serve 100 clients, representing about 3,000 employees today, and we're excited to share a bit of a bit about what makes us a bit different in this space as well. So, to start off, this is, again, a quick summary of what we're going to cover today. The goal here is to be very practical and pragmatic for you. Be specific about statistics and also toolkits that you can use, about why health issues surface too late, where access to care breaks down, what a prevention-first mindset looks like, talking about Allen, but also not talking about Allen, and how we can get it done without adding more work to your plate. And if we can hit all four of those things, I think today will be a successful session for you. Now, I'm gonna kick it off with a quick poll for everybody. Just popped up for me, I'm sure it did for you. So, the question is, which employee health issue is hardest for your company to handle right now? The options are access to primary care, mental health and burnout. Just catching overall health problems early, helping people use their benefits, whether it's navigation or information, or we struggle across all of these. Now, maybe while I'm letting those, answers come in, I'll share… look, when we work with teams, we often hear some combination of the top four. Right? Access to primary care is Certainly a big one, and here we go. Okay. Now, thank you everyone for submitting. We had number one, in the readout here is mental health and burnout. Particularly, most of the statistics back this up, particularly post-COVID, right? It really represented a shift in not only, I think on both sides of the equation, not only our access to care metrics. The wait times got longer, the system got overburdened, people that were in the healthcare system and thinking about retiring, there was a number that actually ended up doing, so… kind of making those problems more challenging, but also expectation shifts. We had different, more hybrid workforces, meaning, you know, sometimes less collegiality between teams. There was a lot more challenge in disseminating information in those environments, so this is really reflective of that. It's interesting to see, catching problems early as this third option, or sorry, second option on the list. I think, we have some data around chronic disease and how that relates to how your team performs, which I think is super representative of this. And then, yeah, I guess the third option there, which makes sense as we struggle across all of these, which is definitely reflective when we go work with HR teams, it's not just one single, hey, Mark, if you can solve this for us, everything will be great. Here are the challenges that we're facing. I think it represents how How Herculean the task can seem, of, hey, we have to move the needle on a number of different things, and by the way, our budget isn't growing this year. So, some statistics kind of validate what almost all of you said here, is like, why does this matter now? The reality is we see how this, you know, not being preventative, not getting ahead of health concerns shows up every single day at work, right? We have 20… only 25% of people who are consistently maintaining healthy habits while at work. Work-life balance is part of this, right? 56% say they want to maintain consistent habits, but the workplace setup makes it really hard to do. And we see, you know, really pointing to the mental burnout side, 70% of employees checking work messages outside of the hours, and almost 1 in 3 are considering leaving the workplace this year. And the time that this takes, right? Oh, I want to be doing these things and being healthier, but I'm not, so… gonna miss some time to go to the doctor, to catch up on meds, to do different things. This is a real cost per employee. We lose about $14,000 every single year to preventative… preventable health issues. And a stat to even further make this real for you is only 7% of Canadians actually meet our health guidelines for activity and sleep. These are set by the Canadian institutions that monitor. And we know that if you don't meet your health guidelines for sedentarism, screen time, and sleep quality, we know you are two times more likely to have a chronic health condition. And this has real impacts for employers. These are not… This is not a vague connection between being preventative about your health, chronic disease, and cost, dollar cost, which… I, you know, I have groups internally that, hey, we need a business case, Mark. Well, 72% of all drug claims are tied to chronic disease. We see an extra of 5 sick days per year for the Canadians suffering from chronic disease, which is directly tied to activity and sedentarism. And you're 3X more likely to have an LTD claimant who has drugs for at least 2 chronic conditions than not. Meaning this isn't only hitting your… your pharmacy and drug budget, this only isn't hitting your absenteeism budget, it's also hitting your long-term disability budget, which can be very large for some groups. So there's real cost to this. And when we talk to HR leaders, right, we realize, like, hey, where are we getting stuck? It's like, well, Mark, I have an EAP today, I have mental support, maybe, as part of our offering, but it kicks in too late. That's only… if we get to that point, you know, that's… we've already had issues, we've already had absenteeism, we're already seeing these things manifest, right? We see, Mark, oh, well, you know, we had these programs, it was a running challenge, but the people that participate and the people that run every day are not the ones I'm worried about. So we're reaching the wrong people with our investment that we're making. The third one is, well, Mark, I don't know who we actually need to be helping and who we need to be getting in front of. It's too hard to see, no one's raising their hand around this, we only find out when it's too late. And the fourth one, which is the most understandable, is like, Mark, I have a ton of things to do. I can't also be a cheerleader for activity and prevention, even though I know it's important. And we see that all the time. The way this visualizes is that we see most of the support, most of the engagement. By the time it ends up on your plate. The bad thing has already happened, whether it's a worker stoppage, whether it's a… you know, high-cost drug claim, whether it's one of the outcomes that we want to avoid as team members. And really, that's where we see most of the investment going. Today, in Canada, most of the money being spent incremental to the, you know, benefits and salary is going towards stuff that really only kicks in after the bad thing happened. And what we want to do is try to reshift this, refocus around. Okay, how can we add low cost, low effort? That's key. There's no more hours coming in the day. But high-value interventions that start before anything goes wrong. Healthy habits, physical activity, sleep, social connection, we know these things are statistically tied to better health outcomes. But how do we do so in a way that doesn't cost any more money and doesn't take any more time? And those are the unique challenges that we feel there are some good options to address. So… Before we get into the solutions here, what's your feedback? What makes it the hardest in your role to support employee health earlier and more preventatively? Is it that you're stretched too thin already? Too many things going on? That there's no new budget to run new health programs, Mark? that, hey, we have some programs, but, you know, I tell people about it, but I don't think many of them kind of retain that. Either they don't know about it, or they don't use the programs themselves. The fourth one we see a lot is, hey, Mark, we have this, but, you know, there's an app over here, there's a tool over here, none of it's connected, none of it's integrated, I can't track who's using it, it's just a nightmare from a management perspective. Or the fifth one is like, hey, that sounds great, but I don't really know where to start, I don't have any good case studies, I haven't heard of anyone doing it well, so I'm not going to spend time, because again. I don't have free time sitting around, Mark. Okay. So, it's really interesting to see, I think that is reflective of something we do see, is that, you know, some groups, they'll have programs today. They'll say, Mark, we actually do run this program, we have a health, a sleep, a workout, a fitness, whatever program. But the team doesn't really know about it, or I told them about it, but they don't really use it. We see that all the time. I think it's a… it's a symptom of something… what we see a lot in Canadian healthcare is very… and particularly on the private health side, which is where we focus. It's really siloed. Right? There's an app for running, there's an app for this, there's an app for employee health, and it's really difficult to aggregate usage. And I think finding integrated solutions that make your life easier is a real key to success. And I think that is… upstream of the second option here, which is HR at Stretch Thin. It's interesting to see budget so low, because The reality is, like, a lot of these programs don't need to cost a lot of money. This is not an area of your business where you say, hey, we need tens of thousands of dollars to get this going. And I think you're reflecting that here. It's like, hey, budget isn't necessarily the constraint. it's the bottom option there in combination of, like, hey, it's not really clear where to start, or I would rephrase it and be like, hey, I'm not really sure where I'm going to get ROI for my time, which is exactly what we were talking about before, in terms of understanding good case studies, highest leverage points for you to use. So, the idea for us is how do we build in daily health habits directly into the systems, integrated directly into the tools that you, but more importantly, your team already uses every single day? How do we bring that together in an integrated fashion with for us, and Allen is an expression of not only your coverage, what, reasonable and customary limits, not only what your family is using, your kids, all of that one place together. And the third point is, it has to be low lift. If we're going out and be like, hey, we built this great gamified health program for you, but you gotta run it every single day, you gotta manage it, you gotta remind people, that will not work. It needs to stand on its own in a place where everybody knows, and it has to have high leverage, it has to have strong outcomes. And that's really where we're focused. So, we have, and directly in our insurance ecosystem. We have a set of challenges here that I want to be clear, you do not need Alan to use. We run it for you, so if you use ours, you can, but this is not specific to Alan by any means. What we show you is that if you bring it all together in one. 33% of employees will use it every single week, and that's 6 months after launch. This isn't something you launch, great, everybody forgets about. 33% weekly active user after 6 months is a tremendous retention curve. What we see on average is that there's 20,000 more steps per month for each person participating in this. 20,000 steps per month is a statistically significant way to reduce all-cause mortality and long-term health challenges. We talked earlier about how activity and sleep are tied to higher chronic disease, which is a higher healthcare costs. For you as the employer. we can reduce that, we can show the opposite, and we make it fun and engaging. One of the points made earlier was around social connection as an important factor of driving health. We have leaderboards, challenges, cheering, all done within the app. And the app focuses on kind of the big pillars of health that are custom-made for the Canadian experience, right? We have meditation and breathwork for sleep. We have going for walks, fitness challenge integration. If you have… if your team has an Apple Watch or a Whoop. All that data gets pulled in, and you get points for that. So really driving those habits. And then we have journaling, and we have ways to connect with free mental health therapists. This is all in the same insurance app, where you click a photo for your massage. And that's the key lift. This does… you do nothing to add this on. Now, but individually, these are ideas for HR, if you're not with Alan, of different programs you can use, whether it's step challenges, meditation, mindfulness. Journaling. These are the big levers that we have for health on our teams. What this looks like in practice is, you know, we have a great team named VIN, they're about 50 employees. They have been using traditional benefits for their entire history of their company. And the quote I love is from one of the founders of the company, who we all work with, he says, we've never… I've never seen a team actually be enthusiastic about benefits. Enthusiasm, not just something you're adding on, because they know it's engaging, it's fun, it's helping them be more healthy, it's one of those things in life that we know we should be doing, right? We make it easy for them to access, because it's in the same app. We turn it into a habit, right? Because daily part of their, daily part of their routines. The team competition side is what fuels that long-term usage and social cohesion. And we connect you in-app to a… to folks like mental health therapists. That's our first point. So, you know, mental burnout was one of the highest rated things from the poll here today. We do 3 free sessions with a therapist on our app, directly connected with the meditation, the mindfulness. So it becomes a spectrum of care, all integrated together in one app that your employees are going to have anyway, because they want to submit their massage bills. So. Where we think you should start is with, I think, one of the other poll questions, which is, like, taking stock, what do we do today? When does it happen? Is it a monthly challenge in March? We always do this thing. What are the gaps between what we're saying as the health insurer, I consider us experts on this, physical, nutritional, mental, sleep health? Where are the gaps that we want to move the dial on? Second is, do we have the analytics set up so that we know who's actually using it, right? One of the points there was, like, hey, I want to understand, like, who are using and who's not using it? What's our nudging? What are we gonna tell them about how do we get involved in this, and what does that mean for us? Well, it's understanding the leading indicators from stress, sedentary behavior, sleep quality. Those are the signals that can drive outcomes for your business. And then, this one is for sure the truth, not only for the teams, but also for adoption, is that making it easy, right? The groups that have the highest engagement are the ones that are embedded within the workflows today, whether that's using something like Alan, or using a workflow in Slack where your team already hangs out today. Embedding it makes it easier. So, our third poll question here is, if you could prove on one thing this year, what would matter most? Earlier access to care, less admin for HR, better mental health support, higher usage of benefits, so understanding what's being offered and using it in the proper ways that we want to see, and a simpler overall experience. So… Great, we can add 100 programs, Mark, but if it makes it too confusing that, you know, HR, we spend a lot of time looking at benefits, but I know our sales team doesn't spend a ton of time on it. How do we make it easy for them to understand? Because if we offer them 100 programs, they're not going to know how to use any of them. So those would be the… the 5 I'd ask for you. Okay, pretty even split on this. Still a really strong focus on mental health. Look, when we were launching our clinic here in Canada, we went out to our first 50 customers and said, hey, like, should we connect your team with primary care doctors? Should we… because there's a huge doctor shortage in Canada, across every province. mental health therapists or other types, and overwhelmingly, we heard from HR leaders like yourself that, hey, even though, you know, COVID's in the rearview mirror. we still think this is our biggest pain point as an organization. This data is reflecting that. It's interesting to see higher usage of employment… of employee benefits. Typically, when I hear that, it's not like, hey Mark, we want people using stuff unnecessary. It's like, we pay for a great benefits plan. It's expensive. We want teams to use it responsibly within the kind of confines of the program we set up, because we want them to appreciate it. what I'll often hear from HR is, like, hey, we bought benefits, but, like, I don't know if anyone really cares, or, like, they appreciate it as much as the expense and the effort to administer it is. So that reflect… that really resonates with me, the top two you have there. And then, yeah, early… earlier access to care. Every data point we have is that you know, a pound of prevention is way less expensive than a pound of treatment. Like, it's way easier to get ahead of a problem. Small, daily health habits. And then simplicity and admin are… also worthy goals. So, thanks everyone for that. So, some questions that we have for your team, and maybe something that actually hopefully inspires a conversation with your broader team, you know, with your other stakeholders, whether that be business leaders, CEOs, CFOs, your HR group, is… do you… do your employees, like, really know what they have access to, from the health resource perspective? And, you know, when your benefits activate, like. Are you getting ahead of things, or are they kicking in only at the end, after something bad has happened? And then, if you are doing something ahead of time, it's like, how do you know what signals and data are you collecting to know that these preventative and health programs are actually working and driving an ROI for the business? Because it does have to have a positive business impact to continue to get funded year after year after year. So I believe we're gonna open it up to questions now for that. 

[00:19:27] Mallory Hendry: Okay, we have a few questions here. Someone's wondering, Mark, how do you help those who don't seem to want to be helped? So, their example is maybe a workaholic that refuses or ignores the prevention measures, or the encouragement for better, healthier choices, such as taking their breaks. 

[00:19:45] Mark Goad: Yeah, I love it. That's a fantastic question. One, like, I always say, like, Lead by example. If you're not taking the time, I worked from home yesterday because I was feeling a little under the weather, and I pinged the whole team, and I'm saying, hey, we have this perk of flexibility, I'm taking it because I'm not feeling great. If I'm not doing it, how could I possibly expect my team to do it? The second is, if it feels like medicine, if it feels like broccoli every day, I totally get why the team isn't interested in that. You have to make it fun and inject something that is self-fulfilling within it. So, in our health programs. Every single week, whoever the healthiest on our team is that week, measured by the number of different health activities they do. It's very simple. Simple is key. they get a virtual currency, berries, which is essentially, capital that they can spend on amazing global charities. So, every time I go for a walk, I do some breathwork or meditation, I know it's good for me, but I'm also collecting points and chari… and berries, excuse me, that I can donate to incredible charities, like, I just made a big donation through the app to, global childhood cancer research, and that made me feel amazing. So, that's an Allen example, that automatically happens, that doesn't come out of HR's budget, that's fully separate, but you could also do that not on Allen, right? Connecting it to a global cause, a charity that matters for your organization. And so, those would be my two answers to that. Leading by example, but also trying to connect it to something bigger than just, like, hey, you should be healthier, eat your broccoli. Like, we can do more to incentivize behavior. 

[00:21:15] Mallory Hendry: That's great. Those are great points, Mark. Thank you. We have a few other questions here. Does Allen Canada support employers and employees with disability claims management? So, for example, adjudication of claims plus supporting employees with resources or referrals. 

[00:21:31] Mark Goad: Yep, yep, we do. So we, we actually partner with a very well-known and trusted organization in disability management. We think our differentiation is on employee engagement, the technology experience, simplicity of access, speed of reimbursement, speed of support. And then what we do is look for experts who are the best in Canada at disability claims management, adjudication, and return to work support. So, all three of those services can also combine things like early intervention, trying to kind of engage with folks before an short-term claim turns into a long-term claim. All of those best practice pathways are available through the Allen offer. 

[00:22:10] Mallory Hendry: Alright, that's great. Another question about some, you know, maybe common obstacles here. How can an employer better integrate benefits, health resources, etc, when their employees have low technological literacy or low to no access to technology? 

[00:22:27] Mark Goad: That's a real question. We were, just onboarding a group in person. We sell to a lot of tech companies, but we also have some non-tech workers, and, for us, it was really, like. No magic secret here, like, really slowing down, going in person, explaining the app, showing demos, and then every month. We send a one-pager of one feature. We don't try to say, hey, here's a thousand features in the app. There's not a thousand features, but you understand what I'm saying. One new feature per month. Hey, did you know there's a free clinic here? Hey, did you know you can donate your cherries here? Hey, did you see this? And, like, building… not trying to boil the ocean one day, because particularly for those that aren't in tech, it already can feel like a lot downloading a new app. Which… so we have to meet people where they are, do it slowly, focus on the highest points of leverage, that's something we've mentioned recurring, and those are kind of the strategies we've used. This was a 550-person company, so this is a fairly large group for us, and we had over 90% employee satisfaction after onboarding, so… I'm pretty confident in recommending that's the way to do it. Small groups, slow, drip campaigns. 

[00:23:37] Mallory Hendry: Okay, and we have another question here. Doesn't the reward system potentially discriminate against people with disabilities or family status issues? 

[00:23:47] Mark Goad: So, the rewards, so I assume you're meaning the berries within the app. So, there are many ways to earn berries within the app. One of the ways is through walking and fitness workouts, but again, that can be any workout, so… I was previously in a really bad bike accident, broke my neck, my nose, my face, I was doing a lot of water physio rehab, and that also works, but most of the activities in the app don't require physical abilities. So there's meditation, there's mindfulness. There's, like, chatting within… chatting with a therapist. So most of the ways to earn berries don't require physicality within it. Physicality is an important dimension of overall health, but even the way we collect the data, like, I was not able to walk, and I was still able to earn berries for fitness routines that just looked a little bit different than how I normally like to exercise. Hope that answers the question. But I appreciate it, thank you. 

[00:24:43] Mallory Hendry: Makes sense. Can you tell us, Mark, what are some of the clearest signs that a company is supporting employee health too late rather than early enough? 

[00:24:53] Mark Goad: I'd say when there isn't a culture of celebrating small wins around preventative health, that's the number one sign, so when we come in and we ask. kind of… question number 3 here is a good one. Like, hey, what are you doing? What are you proud of? What is the organization, you know, what gets talked around the water cooler around, like, what HR health programs are having, and a lot of the time it can feel very daunting, and, like, doesn't need to be, like, hey, we built an entire executive health pipeline with med… like, it can be simple and small. So when I know… when I know there's opportunity for improvement, and I never take this from a negative state, like, hey, why aren't you doing anything? It's always like, wow, look at all these great, small, easy, quick wins, which is… Back to the word leverage that I love to use. That's typically what we see. There isn't a culture around this, and we either come with some ideas you do… again, does not require Allen, we just happen to run all of this for you. It's, like, instant, day one, you don't lift a finger, but we also will give you the ideas about stuff that we know works for us, that you can implement right away. 

[00:25:56] Mallory Hendry: This, next question here kind of ties into that, I think. So, if an HR team really wants to improve access to care without launching another major initiative, what would you say to them about how they could just get started? How can they start? 

[00:26:10] Mark Goad: Yeah, so for us, like, it's about identifying, again, points of leverage. So I see sometimes, like, hey, we're gonna do this big initiative, and the first question is, like, great, like. is that a real problem your team is telling you about? Right? So, step one for us is always problem identification. I'll give you an example. We had a problem, a challenge with the workplace, with our team members. We have a lot of folks that are new to Canada, don't have family doctors. Very difficult for the team to find them in downtown Toronto. So this was a manual health initiative. It has nothing to do with rolling out a big new Allen thing, where we were looking to try to find problems, like, how can we find doctors for the team members on our team who are new to Canada. What we ended up doing was a combination of crowdsourcing. We actually were using AI to look up different doctors' offices nearby to see if they had availability to take new patients. You know, we had one person who got one, and they shared it with the whole team. Again, big team culture and win of, like, wow, hey, this doctor's taking new patients, anyone wants to come by, here's the address, here it is. And then, we found also, like. folks posting on TikTok, if you search there, saying, these are the doctors in Toronto accepting new patients. So that main example, that was not a big, you know, we didn't roll out a new benefits provider, but it was, one, an identified challenge for our team specifically, and two, like, a creative moment where we could all come together and celebrate wins as a team. The third most important point is, like, we've got people, family doctors, which is shown to reduce chronic illness, to reduce days off work, because you have to go to the emergency room. There's a clear business benefit for it, but it was really more of a huge cultural and team win. So, that would be my suggestion. Don't start from the idea down, start from the problem, and go up. 

[00:27:48] Mallory Hendry: Interesting, okay. And how can employers improve employee health support without asking HR to take on even more operational work? 

[00:27:58] Mark Goad: That's a really tough one. The reality is, like, ideally, you have a business partner, you know, a CEO, a CFO, someone on the senior leadership team is gonna say, hey, look, this is important enough for us to do, and then ideally, you can find high-leverage ways where, I think everybody on this call knows. it's… there's probably going to be some lift from you. The question is, like, is that actually making an impact on your team's lives? Because if you positively improve their health, you'll positively improve their work performance, and business performance will follow. So, that's my suggestion, is finding an executive stakeholder outside of HR to help drive it, and identify your highest points of leverage, kind of back to the other answer of, like. Where can you really move the needle with the least amount of lift? Because if it requires a daily hour… It's a lot of work from you. It's gonna be really tough to sustain that. 

[00:28:52] Mallory Hendry: Okay, we have a few more questions. Should I… we'll do one more, then, in the time we have. Why is access to care now such an important workplace issue, and not just a healthcare issue? 

[00:29:07] Mark Goad: Yeah, it's a great question. I think the now, I would say, like, the pandemic really changed how, access to care works within Canada. It just really can be a challenge for teams to find access, which is, just the reality of the situation we're in. It's a workplace issue because we know it's not just benefits costs, but that is a primary driver of cost expansion and inflation. Medical inflation in Canada is around rising costs to treat chronic disease. But it's also absenteeism and other kind of softer dollar issues. Like, I mentioned I had a big accident, and getting access to the care resources that I needed took me off work a lot. Like, there were many times where I had to say, hey, I have to go to this appointment, or I was only able to get this time slot, or I had to go to this emergency room, and, like, that took me off work. And having more services that connect me with different resources definitely helped, like, with Alan, accelerate that time, meaning I was able to get back to work and stay focused on the things that are important for the business. 

[00:30:15] Mallory Hendry: All right. That's so interesting, Mark, that you have that perspective on the other side as well. We've got one more here, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get this in, if you'll bear with me. So, what role should benefits play in helping employees get support before issues grow into leave or burnout? 

[00:30:32] Mark Goad: Yeah, we definitely have a perspective that benefits have been stuck being literally 100% reactive for a very long time in Canada. There might be kind of side apps here added on through a carrier broker that can help address this, but because it's not integrated, utilization and knowledge is very low. So what we do when we come in and work with a company, we ask, like, like, hey, like, do you want… should you… do you think you should be expecting more from your benefits package? Do you think it can have a role in preventing health outcomes. The reality is the health insurer, like, we are… like, we are… we are the payer of the bad health outcomes, but if we continue to do, I call, sick insurance, right? No one ever used your benefits today until, you know, you got sick, you went to the doctor, you went to the pharmacy, you took your prescription, then you filed your bill. And, like, if that's the only point you're engaging. there's no possible way you can start to get ahead of these health issues. So, for me, it's a bit of a reframing of expectations of, like, what should we expect from insurers? And, you know, we have a pretty specific point of view of how high you should have that bar. Our argument is you should have it a lot higher than it probably is today. 

[00:31:43] Mallory Hendry: That's great, Mark. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here and sharing your expertise with us, and to everyone in the audience, thank you for joining us. I'll mention that you can feel free to book a review with Allen Canada, or compare your current plan at allen.ca. And yes, just thank you everybody again, and enjoy the rest of your day. 

[00:32:03] Mark Goad: Thanks so much, Mallory, for having me. It was really, really great. Really liked working with your team as well. 

[00:32:07] Mallory Hendry: Of course. Thank you so much. 

[00:32:09] Mark Goad: Thanks, everyone.